A beautiful reflection on a tragic loss. And a further tragedy that this question of Yaron’s identity is so pertinent, even as the author writes (and I agree) that his identity is (should be) a trivial matter in the face of this senseless loss of life.
After dwelling on your essay all morning, and gnashing my teeth and banging my head at the tragedy, I remembered a book I read years and years ago, The Slave, Isaac Bashevis Singer. The last couple of pages reminded me about Jewish burial law and the sheer power of love.
Stop all the killing period. Why in the title do you declare him a Christian? Then further down we find that not completely accurate. Im not sure why you wrote thst in the title then. All killing is wrong- including the genocide in GAZA.
I hear your criticism and in retrospect i should have used the word “if” rather than “when.” One of the sources I cited said he considered himself Christian and I tried to make the point that most Jews would think of a Messianic Jew as in fact a Christian. But I plead guilty of chasing after the most provocative title possible. Still, my main point is that it doesn’t matter - that this cold blooded murder is horrific no matter who or what the victim is.
This is my opinion, and you probably will not agree. I believe in religious rights. Every person should not be religiously categorized at birth. Every person on earth should have the choice to practice any religion or not to follow any religion. To deny a person the ability to follow a religion because of their parents' religion is simple a violation of their human rights? This used to be the same belief in the protestant and catholic religions, but has changed, but not completely. I could not get married in a Catholic church since I am not a baptised Catholic, but my wife was. We could have if we went through a series of classes indoctrinating me to the Catholic church. We refused to do this and had a civil ceremony. My grandparents and great-grandparents had to leave France and get married in England because they were not both Catholic! My great-great-grandparents also had to because he was an excommunicated priest! Religious bigotry has to stop if we want peace in the world!
You have quite a family legacy of standing up to religious authorities, which I think is commendable. I suspect Jesus would have too! Thanks for sharing this and I hope you are proud of your forbears - in particular your great-great grandfather, the excommunicated priest! I’d love to have met him!
I would have also loved to meet him. I know about him from his wife´s autobiography and a three-volume biography of him in French. His name is Pére Hyacinthe Loyson. He was the head of the Paris Carmelite Convent and gave sermons at Notre Dame as well as across Europe and America. He answered directly to the Pope. He was assigned to counsel an American widow who wanted to convert to Catholicism. They became close friends (and I believe fell in love) and at the ecumenical council of 1869, he questioned the decision to declare the Pope infallible, saying it was heresy and only Jesus was infallible. He was immediately excommunicated and escaped on a ship to America, where he was warmly received. His American friend who stayed in France arranged a house in Geneva for him to return to, since if he had returned to France, he would have been jailed and probably executed! She met him there and they married and had a son about a year later, Paul Hyacinthe Loyson, who also became a celebrity in France. After the Pope died in 1872, the next Pope was no other than Pope Leo XIII. Yes, the pope who has inspired our new Pope. Pope Leo XIII was kind and allowed Pére Hyacinthe to move back to Paris and start his church based on the German Catholic Church, which allows priests to marry. The church still exists today. His sermons were mostly about the rights of the family and the right of all men to have a family. His sermons at Notre Dame were extremely popular, with standing room only, attended by statesmen and the upper class as well as the general public. I hope this gives you an idea of what he was like. Thanks for your comment. I enjoy your writing immensely!
Thank you. I’m awestruck by this story. I had no idea about the German Catholic Church’s married priests. My next pieces is going to focus on the need for courage in public life - especially in religion - a theme I constantly need to return to these days. I may want to refer to this comment and Pére Loyson’s story, if that’s OK.
Yes please. His church was not a German Catholic church but a Église gallicane. Gallican in English, which gives the power to the state to decide on rules for the Catholic Churches in France, superior to the Pope. Most people do not know that married priests are allowed if they are married before they become priests. Hyacinthe was reinstated as a priest under French Gallican law, and not by the Pope, but Pope Leo XIII accepted this. In other words, he left the Roman Catholic church for the French Gallican Catholic Church. He got this idea from the German Catholic Church, which did the same. There is much to read about him available on the internet. The Wiki bio is pretty good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyacinthe_Loyson. I believe the German Catholic Church was one of the first to split with Rome and allow men who were previously married to become priests, but that may take some research! I think that even the Roman Catholics allow this now.
Here is a more detailed biography that can be read online. As a side note his church eventually allied with the English Episcopalian Church, which my sister and I were baptised in when we lived in California. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89094747078&seq=1
—The Israeli embassy reported after the attack that he “identified as Jewish,” but unless he converted, which is highly doubtful, traditional rabbinic authorities, especially in Israel, would consider anyone not born of a Jewish mother to be a non-Jew.—
I understand that at the time of the brit milah, there can be a prayer of conversion first. Would that not suffice? And if he had a bar mitzvah as well? Or does the mother’s faith/ethnicity define a child as a non-Jew unless they convert in adulthood?
The point is that he and his family were committed Messianic Jews who may well have identified as Jews for national purposes but not religiously. The problem most mainstream Jews have with Messianic Judaism ( and "Jews for Jesus") is that it is often intentionally misleading. Yaron himself might have been recruited in that way, according to the Christianity Today piece about him. There are many shadings of Jewish identity, but none of them would include baptism and belief in Jesus as the Messiah. Interestingly, a bris with conversion blessings and immersion can make one Jewish, but only if the child then grows to maturity (bar mitzvah) with Jewish training and affirms that conversion on his own.
I am an American Jew born to a mother who converted when she and my father married. My whole life I've been made aware that I am Jewish enough for Hitler to kill, but not Jewish enough for Israel. I find it gross that a rabbi felt compelled to write an article about "why that matters" in regards to two beautiful kids being murdered. It doesn't matter. The murder matters. Full stop.
First of all, I said that it shouldn't matter. It was murder. it was antisemitism. It was hate. Secondly, you are absolutely, 100 percent Jewish in my eyes, and in Israel's by the Law of Return. Whether the Israeli rabbiniate considers you Jewish is another story, perhaps. But they would have to recognize your mom's conversion if you were to move there and request automatic citizenship. But yes, it is very confusing and frustrating and I can understand how you feel.
You said it shouldn’t matter, and yet you felt compelled to comment on it while the families are still grieving, Rabbi. That doesn’t feel respectful in the slightest. And while I appreciate your empathy towards the nature of my own Jewish identity, I find this kind of hair-splitting vulgar. For God’s sake - you are a rabbi. If it doesn’t matter—if it shouldn’t matter—than MODEL it not mattering, sir. You’re trying to have your cake and eat it, too, and frankly it’s just too much politicization of this horrific act. Be better. Do better.
It shouldn’t matter, but it does. How it matters will in part play out over the coming days, especially in Israel. I wish everyone would cease from politicizing these murders, despite the fact that they were, in fact, a political act, accompanied by the murderer’s chant that was distinctly political. My hope in writing this was not to split hairs but to in fact ensure that the victims would be seen for all their humanity and complexity and not stereotyped to conform to the simplistic narratives that are so prevalent. But if I failed to communicate that clearly enough, that’s on me. Thank you for pointing that out, Lawrence.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply, Rabbi, but in truth, I fear I just don't understand the nuance here. It was of course political, about an overtly political situation--but I still do not understand why this man's beliefs are important, or how they can color the perception in Israel. This is probably a failing on my part, but with an honest heart I tell you that if this man being Messianic is somehow worth talking about, I don't get it. And I don't get why it needs to be now, while those families are still grieving.
I’m thinking this wasn’t political or random, that the killer pinpointed these victims because he was specifically targeting them for some personal reason. I mean, I have no idea, but it just feels that way to me, and it’s being transformed into a political thing.
Interesting theory, which, although seemingly far-fetched, given his “Free Gaza!” chant, does remind us not to rush to judgment before getting all the facts.
Talk, write, be angry but never harm another person!!!!
One death is too much . Killing never solves anything. Whether it it is in the US, Israel or Gaza. All deaths are equal .
May their memory be for a blessing.
And, they loved each other. 💙
A beautiful reflection on a tragic loss. And a further tragedy that this question of Yaron’s identity is so pertinent, even as the author writes (and I agree) that his identity is (should be) a trivial matter in the face of this senseless loss of life.
It just means antisemites will target people for being Jewish-adjacent.
So sad. So senseless.
After dwelling on your essay all morning, and gnashing my teeth and banging my head at the tragedy, I remembered a book I read years and years ago, The Slave, Isaac Bashevis Singer. The last couple of pages reminded me about Jewish burial law and the sheer power of love.
I haven't seen anything about his burial - which leads me to believe (Sunday morning) that all parties involved want to keep it very private.
As I should be. Just, as it should be. Sigh
Stop all the killing period. Why in the title do you declare him a Christian? Then further down we find that not completely accurate. Im not sure why you wrote thst in the title then. All killing is wrong- including the genocide in GAZA.
I hear your criticism and in retrospect i should have used the word “if” rather than “when.” One of the sources I cited said he considered himself Christian and I tried to make the point that most Jews would think of a Messianic Jew as in fact a Christian. But I plead guilty of chasing after the most provocative title possible. Still, my main point is that it doesn’t matter - that this cold blooded murder is horrific no matter who or what the victim is.
I like your last sentence.
My heart and love goes out to their families, their friends, and all those who loved them! Killing is against the law, against Jesus's teachings!
This is my opinion, and you probably will not agree. I believe in religious rights. Every person should not be religiously categorized at birth. Every person on earth should have the choice to practice any religion or not to follow any religion. To deny a person the ability to follow a religion because of their parents' religion is simple a violation of their human rights? This used to be the same belief in the protestant and catholic religions, but has changed, but not completely. I could not get married in a Catholic church since I am not a baptised Catholic, but my wife was. We could have if we went through a series of classes indoctrinating me to the Catholic church. We refused to do this and had a civil ceremony. My grandparents and great-grandparents had to leave France and get married in England because they were not both Catholic! My great-great-grandparents also had to because he was an excommunicated priest! Religious bigotry has to stop if we want peace in the world!
You have quite a family legacy of standing up to religious authorities, which I think is commendable. I suspect Jesus would have too! Thanks for sharing this and I hope you are proud of your forbears - in particular your great-great grandfather, the excommunicated priest! I’d love to have met him!
I would have also loved to meet him. I know about him from his wife´s autobiography and a three-volume biography of him in French. His name is Pére Hyacinthe Loyson. He was the head of the Paris Carmelite Convent and gave sermons at Notre Dame as well as across Europe and America. He answered directly to the Pope. He was assigned to counsel an American widow who wanted to convert to Catholicism. They became close friends (and I believe fell in love) and at the ecumenical council of 1869, he questioned the decision to declare the Pope infallible, saying it was heresy and only Jesus was infallible. He was immediately excommunicated and escaped on a ship to America, where he was warmly received. His American friend who stayed in France arranged a house in Geneva for him to return to, since if he had returned to France, he would have been jailed and probably executed! She met him there and they married and had a son about a year later, Paul Hyacinthe Loyson, who also became a celebrity in France. After the Pope died in 1872, the next Pope was no other than Pope Leo XIII. Yes, the pope who has inspired our new Pope. Pope Leo XIII was kind and allowed Pére Hyacinthe to move back to Paris and start his church based on the German Catholic Church, which allows priests to marry. The church still exists today. His sermons were mostly about the rights of the family and the right of all men to have a family. His sermons at Notre Dame were extremely popular, with standing room only, attended by statesmen and the upper class as well as the general public. I hope this gives you an idea of what he was like. Thanks for your comment. I enjoy your writing immensely!
Thank you. I’m awestruck by this story. I had no idea about the German Catholic Church’s married priests. My next pieces is going to focus on the need for courage in public life - especially in religion - a theme I constantly need to return to these days. I may want to refer to this comment and Pére Loyson’s story, if that’s OK.
Yes please. His church was not a German Catholic church but a Église gallicane. Gallican in English, which gives the power to the state to decide on rules for the Catholic Churches in France, superior to the Pope. Most people do not know that married priests are allowed if they are married before they become priests. Hyacinthe was reinstated as a priest under French Gallican law, and not by the Pope, but Pope Leo XIII accepted this. In other words, he left the Roman Catholic church for the French Gallican Catholic Church. He got this idea from the German Catholic Church, which did the same. There is much to read about him available on the internet. The Wiki bio is pretty good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyacinthe_Loyson. I believe the German Catholic Church was one of the first to split with Rome and allow men who were previously married to become priests, but that may take some research! I think that even the Roman Catholics allow this now.
I read the Wikipedia page and it is fantastic. And so relevant to our time - and hopefully the new pope
Here is a more detailed biography that can be read online. As a side note his church eventually allied with the English Episcopalian Church, which my sister and I were baptised in when we lived in California. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89094747078&seq=1
I like your concept of "religious rights"
—The Israeli embassy reported after the attack that he “identified as Jewish,” but unless he converted, which is highly doubtful, traditional rabbinic authorities, especially in Israel, would consider anyone not born of a Jewish mother to be a non-Jew.—
I understand that at the time of the brit milah, there can be a prayer of conversion first. Would that not suffice? And if he had a bar mitzvah as well? Or does the mother’s faith/ethnicity define a child as a non-Jew unless they convert in adulthood?
It is awful that he was Jewish enough to be martyred but not Jewish enough to be accepted.
The point is that he and his family were committed Messianic Jews who may well have identified as Jews for national purposes but not religiously. The problem most mainstream Jews have with Messianic Judaism ( and "Jews for Jesus") is that it is often intentionally misleading. Yaron himself might have been recruited in that way, according to the Christianity Today piece about him. There are many shadings of Jewish identity, but none of them would include baptism and belief in Jesus as the Messiah. Interestingly, a bris with conversion blessings and immersion can make one Jewish, but only if the child then grows to maturity (bar mitzvah) with Jewish training and affirms that conversion on his own.
I am an American Jew born to a mother who converted when she and my father married. My whole life I've been made aware that I am Jewish enough for Hitler to kill, but not Jewish enough for Israel. I find it gross that a rabbi felt compelled to write an article about "why that matters" in regards to two beautiful kids being murdered. It doesn't matter. The murder matters. Full stop.
First of all, I said that it shouldn't matter. It was murder. it was antisemitism. It was hate. Secondly, you are absolutely, 100 percent Jewish in my eyes, and in Israel's by the Law of Return. Whether the Israeli rabbiniate considers you Jewish is another story, perhaps. But they would have to recognize your mom's conversion if you were to move there and request automatic citizenship. But yes, it is very confusing and frustrating and I can understand how you feel.
You said it shouldn’t matter, and yet you felt compelled to comment on it while the families are still grieving, Rabbi. That doesn’t feel respectful in the slightest. And while I appreciate your empathy towards the nature of my own Jewish identity, I find this kind of hair-splitting vulgar. For God’s sake - you are a rabbi. If it doesn’t matter—if it shouldn’t matter—than MODEL it not mattering, sir. You’re trying to have your cake and eat it, too, and frankly it’s just too much politicization of this horrific act. Be better. Do better.
It shouldn’t matter, but it does. How it matters will in part play out over the coming days, especially in Israel. I wish everyone would cease from politicizing these murders, despite the fact that they were, in fact, a political act, accompanied by the murderer’s chant that was distinctly political. My hope in writing this was not to split hairs but to in fact ensure that the victims would be seen for all their humanity and complexity and not stereotyped to conform to the simplistic narratives that are so prevalent. But if I failed to communicate that clearly enough, that’s on me. Thank you for pointing that out, Lawrence.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply, Rabbi, but in truth, I fear I just don't understand the nuance here. It was of course political, about an overtly political situation--but I still do not understand why this man's beliefs are important, or how they can color the perception in Israel. This is probably a failing on my part, but with an honest heart I tell you that if this man being Messianic is somehow worth talking about, I don't get it. And I don't get why it needs to be now, while those families are still grieving.
I’m thinking this wasn’t political or random, that the killer pinpointed these victims because he was specifically targeting them for some personal reason. I mean, I have no idea, but it just feels that way to me, and it’s being transformed into a political thing.
Interesting theory, which, although seemingly far-fetched, given his “Free Gaza!” chant, does remind us not to rush to judgment before getting all the facts.
😢